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Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (7)

2018/04/26 19:53:05

Subject: Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (10)

Wulfey

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (11)
Dakka Veteran

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
That's a lot of cash for something that's not too pricey. 9 x $50 USD = $450 for just the dragoons. That's almost the cost of another 2000 point army.

This is why I don't run hardcore dragoon lists. I know that a 9 dragoon list is legit. But I don't want to thrown down 300 bucks for 5 more dragoons.

EDIT: for 1274 points, you can make a beastly powerful STYGIES detachment. But I only own 4 dragoons! And when I went to buy another one the store didn't have any. This list paired with a smash battalion and some guard arti would be legit terrifying.

TPD + Enginseer
3x8 rangers
2x4 dragoons.
3x1 icarus onagers

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/26 19:55:49

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (12)

2018/04/28 22:31:18

Subject: Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (15)

Wulfey

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (16)
Dakka Veteran

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (17)_Ness wrote:
guys just a quick 1: how do i activate the 2-shot mode for the castelans in turn 1?

Use BINHARIC OVERRIDE at the end of any phase. I usually do the end of the movement phase.

And Soup Trigger Warning, here is my army packed up for tomorrows 3 round ITC tourney in Antioch.

SISTERS - Celestine w/2Gem, 1x5 sisters with 3 storm bolters
BLANGELS - Slamguinius, CaptainSmash, 3x5 scouts with 2 storm bolters
MARS - Cawl, Engi, 1x9 ranger with omni, 1x5 rangers, 1x5 vanguard, 1x5 dakkabots, 2x1 neutrons

https://imgur.com/gallery/Cxi1RGr

Spoiler:

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (18)

2018/04/29 04:56:03

Subject: Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (21)

Wulfey

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (22)
Dakka Veteran

My theory is that the captain smashes are the anti-vehicle. He has 5 minimum swings on a charge, +d3 for 1CP. He hits on 3s rerolling 1s, wounds on 2s, and each hit is 3 damage. UWOF is usable to get across the board first turn. And captain smash can UWOF on top of some ruins and get a short charge distance do the recent FAQ. Beware things deepstriking 9" up ruins that can fly. The FAQ says you only measure the horizontal distance for charge distances, but measure the hypotenuse base to base to determine the 9".

EDIT: basically my old mortar guardsmen and basilisks have been turned into skitarii and captain smashes. The scouts and smashes could have been a guard battalion, but I didn't want to be at the mercy of my opponent's deployment so much. Basilisks are cool for providing a constant threat of killing one unit per turn. This comes down to me wanting to test a more in your face style and keeping my scouts. Smash is 129 points, and a basilisk is 108. The basilisk is more consistent at getting damage out from the first turn until the last. But smash can ace a yvhara.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/29 05:06:57

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (23)

2018/04/30 03:58:22

Subject: Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (26)

Wulfey

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (27)
Dakka Veteran

Battlereport:

Game 1: my opponent cheats and deploys reinforcing zombi models out of coherency with models that started on the board. This allows him to reach across the board and tie up my robots in combat. I deployed thinking he couldn't do this and I couldn't think of the rule at the time. This won him the game. Smash captains did work, and clever piling in makes them very strong. Celestine wiffed. Robots never shot thanks to the cheating.

Game 2: I faced a roboute guilliman and 2 fireraptors list. He won roll to go first. His firepower is very strong and kill an onager and 2 robots. Smash captain 1 makes an 8" charge through terrain into a fireraptor. Celestine joins in and wiffs. I end up using HONOR THE CHAPTER to swing the captain again and down the firerapter. He drops in his inceptor bomb and fails to kill my captains through poor targeting. My smash captains kill the firerapter and 5 of 6 inceptors. He leaves RG out in the open and the robots kill him once. I eventually ground him to a tabling.

Game 3: my first win versus eldar. My opponent wins first turn, kills 1 robot and an onager and wounds celestine and clears a screen unit. My robot counter battery fire hitting on 6s but ignoring cover kills his rangers and dark reapers. Smash captain 2 took the WLT of +1 damage on weapon and the relic that lets him hit on 2s with a thunder hammer. THen I used the FAQ ruling on deepstrike vertical distance to get a 4" charge off. Smash then did 18 wounds to a wraithlord, HONORED THECHAPTER and killed it. it blew up, killing him, then he ONLY IN DEATH DOES DUTY END for the last of my command points to then demolish a plane right next to him as he died. Celestine got shot and failed her 2+ reroll. I eventually won a close and tense game 23-18.

Unit by unit:

Smash captains are allstars. Like wow. Run them right now. Run them always. Run them forever. They are gods. Every IMPERIUM list is made better with smash captains and scouts. Just do it. Maybe make them out of Ursurax or something.

Dakkabots, so I was super down on them at the end of the day and impulse bought a baneblade at 15% off. Then my buddies explained how I got cheated. So now I am kinda back on the dakkabot train. I am pretty close to just dropping them and running STYGIES battalion, Shadowsword, BLANGELS battalion.

Cawl, like holy hell how does he roll so bad. He hits on 2s, wounds on 3s, but this jerk can't do anything. I don't get it. 240 points of aura caddy for the robots.

SKitari vanguard and rangers --- I think they did 5 wounds to targets over the course of 3 games. They often die for nothing, and usually fail to wound everything. In one game a group of rangers had +1 str and killed 5 cultists, they somehow passed morale (cheater guy). Non-stygies skitarii are just bad. God damn.

ENginseer -- literally did nothing in 2 games. In the third game he denied a critical deep strike because I happened to forget to move him from the out of LOS hide hole I had him in.

Neutrons -- one did like 6 wounds to a fire prism. one did like 6 wounds to a fire raptor. Zero wounds done from the bolters. Their only redeeming quality is that people like shooting them and for some reason split fire on them away from the robots.

Scouts -- if the first guy didn't cheat then they would have won me that game. As it was, he used the scout deaths to gain 3" of movement by placing resurrecting zombies closer and closer to my lines until he tied my robots up from across the board using a daisy chain. They did well in the third game and kept me up on objectives every turn. They kept me up on objectives every turn on the second game as well. Scouts really help when you get stuck going second.

Celestine -- I am done. I just can't. Smashcaptains actually kill things. Celestine just tickles stuff. Celestine + 2 geminae killed 3 scouts in combat, 2 lived and fell back. I was relying on her mobility as a crutch. The smash captains turn CP into DEVASTATION. Celestine is just .... there. But that isn't enough. People just hit her with mortal wounds. When she does her job and picks off some dark reapers and soaks way too much fire ... yeah ... she is good. But damn people have learned how to make a wall of garbage that makes suiciding her a useless proposition. She worked when I could SOUP her in, but with the taxes she just isn't worth it anymore. Smash captains do her job and do it harder.

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (28)

2018/04/30 04:45:20

Subject: Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (31)

Wulfey

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (32)
Dakka Veteran

I used it when I ran a harder guard complement. Just get 1 lucky mortar wound then fire the basilisks. But right now, if I had 2 CP, and the CP mattered, that would be saved for the smash captains. I passed on WRATH OF MARS to save for ONLY IN DEATH DOES DUTY END. It was the right call .. if only Celestine made her 2+ ressurect.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/30 04:46:08

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (33)

2018/04/30 05:32:52

Subject: Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (36)

Wulfey

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (37)
Dakka Veteran

Yeah, every time a scout died he put a poxwalker 3" closer to my robots. He got like an easy 21" in that way, charged my skitarii and piled into my robots on turn one with a poxwalker daisy chain all the way to his deployment side and 10" into my deployment. As as he did that, I was like, oh, I deployed thinking that wasn't a possibility. I guess you win. We still only got to the bottom of turn 2 because the poxwalker gak is so complicated.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/30 05:33:32

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2018/04/30 15:41:09

Subject: Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (41)

Wulfey

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (42)
Dakka Veteran

ITC tends to have low objective marker count games. You really just need to hold two things. And no, a dragoon bomb and/or celestine are actually not that great at holding those things. They need to be out there hurting stuff. If that stuff is on an objective, great. But often their targets aren't (especially dragoon targets which tend to be tanks). Scout marines tucked out of line of sight who advance onto an objective won me the third game in that battle report. I even ran them off an objective to save them to get HOLD MORE on a later turn. People also swear by scout bikers. Admech has literally nothing that moves like that. Your only other option in STYGIES infiltrating vanguard into position for 1CP. But that blows and you should already have some scouts anyways. Nick Nanvati is down on admech for good reasons. The codex doesn't have the tools to play a complete game of 40k (objectives, psychic, mobility, non-LOS, near free chaff, units with freakish durability, flyers, transports). EDIT: even in that second game above, I advanced my scouts off the middle objective and behind cover when I saw too much coming in, they later ran in and put me up on hold more the next turn.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/30 15:45:53

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2018/04/30 18:44:01

Subject: Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (46)

Wulfey

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (47)
Dakka Veteran

Yeah I am skeptical of 6x dragoons because the 1" of 1" pile in is so nasty if there is terrain. The flower formation of 1 dragoon long ways in 1", and then 3 dragoons basing the front dragoon's back leg is very efficient for 4 dragoon units. If you did drop 2 dragoons, and you don't have smash captains to devour all your CP, I would consider taking a unit of plasma kataphrons. If your opponent doesn't have non-LOS shooting, they just need to be out of LOS for 1 turn. I suspect that many opponents wouldn't realize just how important it is to blow the kataphrons off the table at all costs and might get distracted by your robot herd. At 6 robots you are ALL IN robots. Might as up the bet even higher and reach for the +1 to hit.

EDIT: I will likely be going back to running dragoons at my next tournament beacuse I am sick of the damend robots.

BLANGELS - 2x smash captain, 3x5 scouts
STYGIES - TPD, Engi, 3x5-7 rangers with arc rifles or omnispexes mixed in, 3x1 icarus, 1x4 dragoons
TALLARN - Shadowsword, commander (5+/5+ to feed captains), 2x psykers to buff tank

I put as many infantry as I can out of LOS, leaving only my icarus and dragoons on the board to be shot. TALLARN shadowsword starts off the board, so it will always be alive for me to buff with the psykers. The whole army sucks to shoot at and has hard hitting melee. Shooting isn't as reliable as the bots, but shadow sword deletes CHAOS.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/30 18:46:57

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2018/04/30 23:45:48

Subject: Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out

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Wulfey

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (52)
Dakka Veteran

I like rangers with an omnispex for very specific matchups. They have 30" range and ignore cover. So that means that Eldar Rangers are not at all safe from those rifles. Even a few shots will start dropping elves. Mathematically they should be good point for point shooting at dark reapers. But my opponent made 3+ saves for days.

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (53)

2018/05/01 04:47:07

Subject: Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (56)

Wulfey

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (57)
Dakka Veteran

Oh yeah. If you had more than 3 dunecrawlers that is really rough in competitive play. 6 dunecrawlers lists were cool. I just never had the models. Quite a grim nerf to something that wasn't even good.

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (58)

2018/05/01 17:59:46

Subject: Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (61)

Wulfey

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (62)
Dakka Veteran

Data point from London GT lists.
20 hits of STYGIES
10 hits of MARS

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (63)

2018/05/01 18:28:31

Subject: Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (66)

Wulfey

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (67)
Dakka Veteran

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (68)Aaranis wrote:

Wulfey wrote:
Data point from London GT lists.
20 hits of STYGIES
10 hits of MARS

What are you talking about ?

Warhammer London GT is a huge prestigious 40k tournament in England. There is a big file with all the submitted lists. A search of that file returns hits. There were 20 hits of STYGIES. There were 10 hits of MARS. More STYGIES than MARS at a super major tournament.

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (69)

2018/05/01 18:56:19

Subject: Re:Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (72)

Wulfey

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (73)
Dakka Veteran

THere is a massive wall of text underneath this spoiler. But there are a whole lot of good admech ideas in here. In two weeks I plan on trying:

BLANGELS - smash/meph/3x5scouts
TALLARN - commander, 2x primaris, surpriseShadowsword
STYGIES - tpd, engi, 3x skitarii troops, 2x icarus, 1x5 dragoons

Going to make the commander the HQ for 5+/5+ to help with the CP drain. Switching to smash/meph because smash actually can drain 10CP in a turn.

Spoiler:

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (74)

2018/05/01 19:26:28

Subject: Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (77)

Wulfey

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (78)
Dakka Veteran

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (79)lash92 wrote:
Isn´t the Shadowsword a little bit to specialized?

Specialized at erasing CHAOS lists, yes. And LOW lists. And counter charging and hitting on a 2+. And I can fix it with my engi. It isn't that hot against eldar and stygies, but it does terrible things to everything that doesn't have a -1 shield. I am going to try it as an alternative to dakkabots.

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (80)

2018/05/01 19:34:02

Subject: Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (83)

Wulfey

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (84)
Dakka Veteran

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (85)em_en_oh_pee wrote:

Wulfey wrote:

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (86)lash92 wrote:
Isn´t the Shadowsword a little bit to specialized?

Specialized at erasing CHAOS lists, yes. And LOW lists. And counter charging and hitting on a 2+. And I can fix it with my engi. It isn't that hot against eldar and stygies, but it does terrible things to everything that doesn't have a -1 shield. I am going to try it as an alternative to dakkabots.

Bro, at this point you should probably just shelf your AdMech. You list is getting to the point where it might as well not have any. Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (87)

In competitive most of admech are shelf decorations. Every competitive guy I talk to agrees that the way to run majority admech is dakkabots. But I been running it for a year. It is good. It can win. But it subject to cheaters and I am tired of it. A basic dakkabots, smashcap, guardBattalion list is actually very good right now after all the nerfs if you can remember all the FAQs to keep the nonsense at bay. Robots are tough enough to eat turn 1 alpha strikes and still shoot back.

EDIT: after last weekend an my lessons learned games for post FAQ, if I was going to run majority admech and dakkabots, I would run something like this.

TALLARN infantry battalion - 2x coms, 3x guards
MARS battalion - Cawl, engi, 5x bots, 3x rangers, 2x neutron
BLANGELS battalion - 2x slam, 1x meph, 3x scouts

Celestine let me down bad but my core shooting from admech was good. Only my lack of CP held my slam captains back. Another 180 points of guard bodies that can advance, move move move, and still shoot would be nice against horde lists and help me pollute objectives. The ranger groups would be limited to sitting in the back on objectives and trying to hide out of LOS and deny deepstrike.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/01 20:49:52

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2018/05/01 21:21:18

Subject: Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (91)

Wulfey

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (92)
Dakka Veteran

Yes Suzeto. I think taht list is actually a legit contender nowawadays. Once you get used to really abusing the UWOF on top of a building to get a bullpoop 4" charge you can never go back. It is straight rigged. BLANGELS devour CP, but they turn CP in pure devastating damage. Nothing else in the IMPERIUM can do what they do. Post FAQ the BLANGELS heroes only got more devastating thanks to those 5CP battalions. At present, I prefer admech tanks to baslisks even tho I know the basilisks are more consistent and extremly efficient versus non -1 modifier targets. Admech tanks really are a lot tougher than a basilisk right now and their accuracy is excellent. My neutrons sucked last round so I would go back to mixing in icarus. Slam captains are bring that devastating str8, -3, 3 damage that you need in a way that makes neutrons less attractive.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/01 21:21:55

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2018/05/02 21:34:07

Subject: Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (96)

Wulfey

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (97)
Dakka Veteran

Suzuteo wrote:

Wulfey wrote:
Once you get used to really abusing the UWOF on top of a building to get a bullpoop 4" charge you can never go back. It is straight rigged.

Can you sanity check my understanding of the rules here?

1) UWOF cannot be used T1; it is a reinforcement-style stratagem.
2) You do not get a move after UWOF
3) Flying ignores vertical distance.
4) However, charging uses base-to-base diagonal distance.

Furthermore, the Captain is clearly a beast, but should his partner be The Sanguinor, Lemartes, Mephiston, a Chaplain, or a Librarian? Because The Sanguinor is expensive as hell, and Mephiston lacks a jump pack. Really, Lemartes with the Death Vision stratagem seems the cheapest option (129+129+1 CP).

GW clarified that the 'no deep strike first turn' doesn't count towards units that start on the board. I always put my captains on the board. The 9" base to base requirement for deepstrike is always measured as a hypotenuse base to base (aka, real world distance). But FLY models have always ignored intervening terrain when calculating charge distances. GW then further says:

Q: When a unit that can Fly declares a charge move against a
unit that is on the upper levels of a ruin, do I need to include
the vertical distance when making the subsequent charge move
for the unit?
A: No. A unit that can Fly effectively ignores vertical
distances when making a charge move. Note though that
the charging unit must still be within 12" (measured
directly ‘base-to-base’, i.e. diagonally) to be able to
declare the charge in the first place.

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/warhammer_40000_rulebook_en-1.pdf

This couldn't be clearer. The 9" deepstrike is measured on the hypotenuse. The charge distance is only horizontal for a fly model (usually 4"). And you can UWOF on the first turn because I always put my captain on the board. So for 1CP I get a 4" charge turn 1 if you put something near terrain. It is LOLLLLLL

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (98)

2018/05/03 18:50:41

Subject: Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (101)

Wulfey

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (102)
Dakka Veteran

Hah! The 6 ballistarii stack as the meta buster. 3+ to hit with +2 from the strategem and rerolling 1s from canticles is hilarious. Take that ELDAR! Too bad they die like flies to 3 damage weapons. I have a new job that pays so I am up to my 5th dragoon kit. Guess I should get a 6th soon. It is super lame that kits like the Onager are kokbloked at 3 kits max in competitive, but dragoons ... just keep adding them ... more is better ...

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/05/03 18:51:39

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2018/05/07 18:19:42

Subject: Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (106)

Wulfey

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (107)
Dakka Veteran

Yeah I checked out the DW leaks and found them wanting. We don't need costly, tough, medium shooting troops. If there were deathwatch scouts or deathwatch scouts bikers ... oh boy yes. The best things in the DW book are deathwatch intercessors ... but we just don't need more mid strength -2 shooting at 36" range (hello dakkabots). After my last tournament where celestine really let me down a few times, I am thinking of running the following this Saturdey. Dropping her to take mephiston and dropping her 100 point girl escort for some extra guard bodies for more CP. This list bases at 18 CP and can get access to 5+/5+ from the guard WL and then another 5+ recycling that stacks with the Veritas Vitae captain relic. I am going to run some node sims to see if stacking CP recycling that high is worth the -2 CP and relic slot at the start of the game. Because refunded CP can themselves be refunded later in the game, double dipping on refunds could be decisive.

<NOT SURE> battalion - 2x commanders, 3x guardsmen, 1x mortar team
<MARS> battalion - Cawl, engi, 5x dakkabots, 3x rangers, 2x icarus (neutron let me down, might as well have anti flier)
BLANGELS battalion - 2x slamcaptain, Mephiston, 3x5 bolter scouts with stormbolter/chainsword seargants (this is the best equip, marking it down here)

Slam captains utterly obviate neutrons. If I have 18 base CP ... why bring a neutron to do spare smashes job? And I am considering TALLARN just so I can threaten to keep the guard off the board until turn 3 to contest objectives against certain gunline opponnents. And TALLARN can advance and still first rank fire second rank fire at full BS, which is kinda hillarious versus cultists.

EDIT: other lesson from last tourney: skitarii troops are bad. Like real bad. They will placed out of LOS or bubble wrapping characters to prevent first turn flyer snipes and hiding on the back of the board all game. Rangers are good for being cheap and good for hiding. They killed maybe 3 or 4 ELDAR rangers and 2 scouts all tournament, that is it.

EDIT2: I EDIT3: DO really miss my basilisks. They are great against things without -1 to be hit that are trying to hide. And that is good. But they won't help me against hard opponents the same way smash captains save me against the hardest of things. If I wasn't running admech I would bring them because they do a similar role to the onagers. But due to cawls aura I think the icarus's profoundly accurate firepower (since I have the CP to give one of them +2 to hit per turn) will do me more.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2018/05/07 18:50:42

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2018/05/07 19:34:05

Subject: Re:Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (111)

Wulfey

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (112)
Dakka Veteran

I like the stormcast being the basis for the smash captains. I used primaris marines + a vanguard veteran kit for the weapons and the jetpacks. Having played 2 captains, my argument is that more CP => more damage. Having 2 really hit hard. You would be surprised how often you can deny overwatch just by putting a slam captain behind some wall. I get lemartes as being good provided you give him good targets. He has to be aimed at things that aren't big vehicles because he is only S6. I like the second captain because he is a second devastating missile to wreck some giant monster or giant vehicle that my robots can't kill.

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

https://imgur.com/a/ms79CSu

EDIT: on the list above, yes, I am so close to running that. I think it is strong and works basically right. I am putting the Icarus above the Basilisk and one more robot right now. But I think it is a very close call. And yes, I like the basic GUARD + ADMECH + BLANGELS list a lot right now.

EDIT2: here is what we are contrasting:

Slam2 + Mephiston + 2x Icarus + mortar team

Lemartes(orSlam2) + 3x basilisks + 1x robot

Okay now the basilisks and another robot are looking good. Slam2 is easier to play than mephiston and then I have 1 less model to paint. This also speeds up my shooting phase a lot.

EDIT3: you convinced me. Basilisks are back on the table. Smash caps really love killing fliers. Don't need icarus.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2018/05/07 20:26:37

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2018/05/07 20:37:11

Subject: Re:Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (116)

Wulfey

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (117)
Dakka Veteran

I would need to build and full paint a fresh dragoon and my shadowsword isn't even close to ready. I converted it up to have some custom sponsons and reused the stormlord cannon to count as 4 heavy bolters in a flipped upside down turret. I think it looks like a CIWS. The flipped stormlord frame gives it a good 20 degrees depression and 40 degrees elevation. I have it mounted a magnet so it can spin. But the point is with work and gym and gf time, I don't have the 8 hours of work the shadowsword needs to be ready for this saturday tournament. But my slam captains and basilisks and robots are all good to go. Just need a few touch ups on my rangers. The Kastle Konflict crew insists not on just 3 colors, but basic tabletop standard or you get whacked (with nasty per unit strategems too).

Spoiler:

EDIT: on the veritas vitae, I am going to run some simulations tonight on node. I will have an answer by tomorrow. I usually just run hammer of baal cause it is dope.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/07 20:39:57

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2018/05/08 17:22:21

Subject: Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (121)

Wulfey

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (122)
Dakka Veteran

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (123)ph34r wrote:
Neat shadowsword. What list to support it?

When it is done I was thinking of running a STYGIES brigade with a dragoon bomb, some rangers, and some icarus onagers. I think there is a lot of synergy there because the icarus shoots what the shadowsword can't, the dragoons fight, and the enginseers can fix the shadowsword. What I don't get is what Joshua Death (number 1 global ITC ranking) is running at the London GT. Death is running something like:

CADIA battalion - 2x com (5+/5+), 3x guards
BLANGELS command - 2x smash captain (I knew I was onto something), techpriest on bike with conversion beamer (holds the 5+ refund relic)
STYGIES vanguard? battalion? - enginseer, 1x6 dragoons, 2x19 fulgurite staff priests

This guy is the top ranked player in the world going to a hard as nails tournament ... and he brings 2x priest bomb.

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (124)

2018/05/09 04:52:08

Subject: Re:Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (127)

Wulfey

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (128)
Dakka Veteran

So I ran my simulations on the VERITAS VITAE + GRAND STRATEGIST + KUROVS. Yes. Yes it makes a huge difference.

Here is the basic node code:

https://github.com/wulfey/vitaeTest

Here are the results:

on 18 base CP with the above configs: 34.163975 spent CP on average over 40000 executions d6 avg: 3.491 average dice roll on my d6() function

not taking the VITAE and spending only 3CP at the start of the game gives: average: 26.510925 d6 avg: 3.5134

So YES YES YES spend those 2 CP to get the VITAE. DO IT. Joshua Death is onto something really good.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/09 04:59:53

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2018/05/09 17:11:09

Subject: Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (132)

Wulfey

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (133)
Dakka Veteran

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (134)em_en_oh_pee wrote:

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (135)Tyr13 wrote:
I feel like there should probably be seperate tactics threads for pure AdMech and allied armies. Its just way too much non-AM stuff in here, imo. And yeah, I know, pure AM is underpowered and wont win tournaments, sure. But if I wanted to use a tiny AM detachment in a BA army, Id be looking at the BA thread, no?

Probably should have a Soup thread at this point, since I know most Tactica threads don't like divergent lists as much.

Wulfey, get on that bro! Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (136)

I could see a broader IMPERIUM-SOUP-ITC tactica thread. There has to be other guys like me out there. I would be willing to migrate.

Back on that Josh Death list tho, the VERITAS VITAE is what is allowing him to consistently threaten to have this Electropriests fight twice. Even if he loses a full brick of electropriests, the second one will fight twice and go super sayan. Must ... not ... buy ... $240 MSRP of electropriests ... urrrr he better not win .... EDIT: the VITAE could be key to putting my admech over the top on saturday, so I still think it is an admech tactica point.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/09 17:24:09

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2018/05/09 22:14:56

Subject: Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (140)

Wulfey

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (141)
Dakka Veteran

Suzuteo wrote:
If anything, I am surprised they let non-Warlord armies take relics at all.

Some more data. Assuming these variables:

const CP = 14;
const visions_sanguinus = 2;
const relic_spends = 3;
const opponent_strats = 8;
const execs = 40000;
const VERITAE = true;
const GRAND_STRATEGIST = true;
const KUROVS = true;
const STRATS = { 1: 1, 2: 1, 3: 1, 4: 2, 5: 2, 6: 3 };

I get these results over 40k executions:

average spent CP during game [excluding pre game]:
27.7443
average refunds:
{ VERITAE: 5.828425,
KUROVS: 2.663625,
GRAND_STRATEGIST: 9.25225 }

Each of the refunds feed onto each other, so adding VERITAE on top of the other two is effectively paying 2CP to get back 7 more spent CP over the course of the game.

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (142)

2018/05/14 04:23:09

Subject: Re:Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (145)

Wulfey

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (146)
Dakka Veteran

At my local GT of 8 guys I took second going 2-1 today. I ran:

MARS - cawl, 1x5 dakkabots, 2x1 icarus
BLANGELS - 2x captain smash, 3x5 scouts
CADIA - 2x commanders, 3x9 mortar guards, 1x3 basilisk

I ran my GRAND STRATEGIST, KUROVS, VITAE build.
Game one I started with 9CP after pre game spending and spent 14CP total over the game.
Game two I spent 21CP.
Game three I spent 17CP.
This is lower than my simulator suggested, but overall a very strong addition and worth doing. Overall I was very pleased with my list. With better play I would have won my loss.

First opponent: John's 4x knights. My real first opponent was my nemesis who did that 3" movement every time his poxwalkers died. I had my screenshots ready and was going to shut him down. My list was much tighter this week and my guard were ready to relic of lost cadia all over his ass. But he a family emergency and I played the knights. I eventually shot them off the board. It was almost interesting when he almost got all my baslisks but didn't. My smash captains rolled great, but he knights were making 3 of 5 six up saves at a time, so there is only so much the smash captains can do. In addition my refunds were running super cold and I couldn't only in death does duty end when I needed to.

Second opponent: michaels imperial soup of BLANGELS, CADIA, RAVENGUARD. I made a critical deployment mistake and rolled three 1s to go first with the +1 and failed to seize. He was able to tie up my robots on turn one with FORLORN FURY because I didn't deploy correctly. He was vastly ahead all game, but I clawed up to a 16-17 loss. I was pleased with my play and army if only I had properly screend the robots. I should have just put them basilisks in front of them and let the robots shoot over them.

Third opponent: mikaels competitve tau. 4x ion cars, riptide, 3x coldstar fusion suits, some shield drones, some stealth suits, and some firesight marksmen. I managed to get first turn and suicided the no overwatch captain smash and burned 8 CP to kill two of his cars on a suicide run. His drones made obscenely good saves versus bolter fire. There was a huge line of sight blocker that prevent either of our real gunlines from shooting so we just traded kills. I racked up bonus points by suiciding troop squads on to the bonus objective every turn and held more every turn but he killed more every turn. Eventually I had his cars dead and put his suits forwards and they all charged some troops, but my seargant in my gaurd squad survived his morale even with me rerolling to try and kill him. This meant his whole army was right in front of my robots but he had pinned in a guard seargant on the objective. I suicided cawl to wound some suits and kill some drones. On the last turn I have all 3 of his suits in front of my untied up and ready to go 5 dakkabots. He insists taht the character rule prevents you from targeting more than one character. This is dead wrong. Like laughably and abusively wrong. But the FAQ won't load. I was up enough that just killing one suit was enough but this was very much a cheat in the face of the rules. After the game we were able to find the PDF and I ground him and the judge down about how the rule plainly says that each MODEL not unit ignores characters less than 10 for determining if a character with less than 10 in the closest. This isn't hard. But tournaments players gonna cheat when they can. My robots should have been able to simply blow all 3 suit commanders away. but he has to cheat and I only get to kill one. I still win 27-16 but these guys

UNIT by UNIT:

cawl was great as always
smash captains are just mandatory. Get them in your list right now. Just do it. Put some admechy crap on there if you need to.
guardsmen are great. They can get +1 to saves, they move really fast with movemovemove, they have oddly relevant shooting from the mortar
dakkabots did dakkabot things, when they weren't losing me the game, they were winning me the game
icarus did better than I thought. It has a wide threat range and is pretty consistent at plinking stuff, especially tau stuff. The truoble is that it isn't anti tank, it is anti elite 1 wound things
basilisks did basilisk things. They consisnently put a few wounds on somethign that thinks it is safe. they draw crazy threat for their cost and threaten everything in the game ... but never really blow it away
scouts are good all around troops that do things that other troops don't. It sucks when your opponent has fast melee stuff that eat them (lemartes), but they got me up on points many times thanks to being out there out of LOS

I wouldn't change much about this list. More dakkabots wouldn't have helped me win due to LOS. Maybe mephiston or lemartes would be more relevant than another smash captain? But that threat of another flat 3 damage beast being out there and maybe me having the CP to deliver that deathblow ... my thinking is that nothing in my army does flat 3 ... only smash captains can do that. So the second one just gives me more options to put that kind of real hurt on something big. Maybe hellhounds would do better than basilisks ... but I am not convinced because they don't threaten high T stuff all game. Basilisks provide that constant "your tank isn't safe" threat that more auto hitting stuff won't bring. Also, i think putting 260 points into melee is all I need. A third hero wouldn't have helped. I needed the shooting I had.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/05/14 04:34:16

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2018/05/14 18:23:28

Subject: Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out

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Wulfey

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Dakka Veteran

I think bolter scouts with a stormbolter/chainsword on seargant is the best possible equip. It gets you the most dice, most of the time.

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2018/05/14 19:57:35

Subject: Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (155)

Wulfey

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (156)
Dakka Veteran

My robot's heads peek over the tracks of the basilisks. Next game I am going to put the basilisks in front as a wall. Maybe run them as TALLARN so that they can move and shoot. The problem with my screen is that I deployed spread out to stop the deep strike when I should have been much more worried about the FORLORN FURY granting a 36" threat on turn 1. We had the pointed dawn of war deployment so the FORLORN FURY threat was much larger than I thought it was.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/14 19:58:49

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2018/05/16 17:39:00

Subject: Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out

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Wulfey

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (161)
Dakka Veteran

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (162)Ideasweasel wrote:
Anyone catch the spikey bits rumours for Imp knight point reductions? Some talk of trying to make Armigers not suck. Not sure that helps Admech much but a boon is a boon

For giggles compare an imperial knight crusader to a shadowsword. The crusader has like half the mathhammer firepower and threatens heavy things dramatically less for the same points.

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2018/05/17 23:07:37

Subject: Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out

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Wulfey

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (167)
Dakka Veteran

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (168)Unit1126PLL wrote:

Suzuteo wrote:

Wulfey wrote:

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (169)Ideasweasel wrote:
Anyone catch the spikey bits rumours for Imp knight point reductions? Some talk of trying to make Armigers not suck. Not sure that helps Admech much but a boon is a boon

For giggles compare an imperial knight crusader to a shadowsword. The crusader has like half the mathhammer firepower and threatens heavy things dramatically less for the same points.

But the Shadowsword, ironically, does not have a sword. Or feet.

Anyhow, if they get the points for a minimum Crusader down to around 450, I would seriously consider one.

The Crusader doesn't have a sword either. Still, I consider it a bit spurious because it's like comparing a hurricane bolter to a lascannon and then saying the lascannon kills tanks better.

The Crusader gets 12+3d6+2d3 shots, for a total of 17-36, with an average of 26.5 shots.

The Shadowsword gets 9-15, with an average of 12. So I would hope it's better at killing larger targets, because it's considerably worse (less than half as good) at killing hordes.

The shadowsword has 30 heavy bolter shots a turn that can shoot into combat. Knights need a lot of help.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Octovol wrote:

Tactica Mechanicus - FAQ Out - Page 10 - Forum (170)em_en_oh_pee wrote:

Octovol wrote:
6 Individual dragoons? hmmm.

Looks like a single unit.

Id love to have seen how he played this, virtually no long range fire. I guess we’re assuming no vehicles at the moment so might as well go full infantry counter.

I am not seeing why he brings the astra militarum section that he does. Why bring the valkyrie? That thing could be 3x5 scouts and 4CP. Fulgurites and Smash captains love CP. I can't see how that valkyrie thing could possibly do the damage that his melee guys could do with some more CP. His snipers generate 6 arquebus and 6 bolter equivalent 3+ shots per turn.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/17 23:18:29

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